Curse

joseph Mckennie · May 11, 2011, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Yes, but they've already mentioned making paragons the next big update after the dervish. So once again, my point was theyre giving non-core professions attention, when certain core profs (elementalist, probably warrior) need them too. They did well enough with the mesmer though.

snowman relic · May 11, 2011, 01:04 AM // 01:04

OP sorry but unless something is more powerful then everything else even by a little much or its just to weak to be usable you wont get to much backing and nothing will get done

Kegen · May 12, 2011, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Quick thanks to everyone who responded. All very good points even if they were conflicting (work on that

)

For the record, I don't believe the rangers to be horribly underpowered. I just longed for a little attention (I'm needy like that). Mostly looking for updates that bring the ranger in line with play styles (i.e. fast paced).

Just some ideas below to get them out of my head. I'm sure most have been mentioned before somewhere and probably inspired these thoughts.

Nature rituals could be speedier and maybe less friendly to enemies (but smaller in benefit).

Preparations would be more interesting if they did something along the lines of
1) didn't get removed by barrage/volley
2) stacked together (2 at a time or something)
3) worked with a counter (e.g. 50 arrows prepped and then could be used with any arrow skill).

Traps could either be
1) slightly less effective and recharge faster.
2) Make them not as easy to interrupt
3) Somehow account for AI scatter in some other way

Marksmanship and Beast Mastery seem pretty good for the most part. But I could live with a more responsive pet that had a form of taunt or the two skill sets working a bit better together.

Best of luck to all you paragons and other classes who get the shaft worse (I'm assuming you're right, I haven't played them).

miriforst · May 12, 2011, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kegen

Quick thanks to everyone who responded. All very good points even if they were conflicting (work on that

)

For the record, I don't believe the rangers to be horribly underpowered. I just longed for a little attention (I'm needy like that). Mostly looking for updates that bring the ranger in line with play styles (i.e. fast paced).

Just some ideas below to get them out of my head. I'm sure most have been mentioned before somewhere and probably inspired these thoughts.

Nature rituals could be speedier and maybe less friendly to enemies (but smaller in benefit).

Preparations would be more interesting if they did something along the lines of
1) didn't get removed by barrage/volley
2) stacked together (2 at a time or something)
3) worked with a counter (e.g. 50 arrows prepped and then could be used with any arrow skill).

Traps could either be
1) slightly less effective and recharge faster.
2) Make them not as easy to interrupt
3) Somehow account for AI scatter in some other way

Marksmanship and Beast Mastery seem pretty good for the most part. But I could live with a more responsive pet that had a form of taunt or the two skill sets working a bit better together.

Best of luck to all you paragons and other classes who get the shaft worse (I'm assuming you're right, I haven't played them).

^nature rituals for the most part got only a minimal benefit already.

What are they going to do? halve 4+ physical damage? Or making winter only work 50%?

Laylat · May 12, 2011, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Ranger Spirits in my opinion should have a 3/4 cast time in PvE--just like Ritualist Spirits.

FoxBat · May 12, 2011, 08:35 AM // 08:35

Barrage + explosive arrows + EbSoH would be a little broken, if that can be adjusted then preps w/barrage can probably work.

Kegen · May 12, 2011, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by miriforst

^nature rituals for the most part got only a minimal benefit already.

What are they going to do? halve 4+ physical damage? Or making winter only work 50%?

Good points, I was just adding that bit in case it made the rituals overly powerful (I was envisioning Symbiosis where everyone's rolling through PvE with over 9000 health due to enchantments). Mainly being able to cast them more often and faster would be best considering how quickly groups go through areas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Barrage + explosive arrows + EbSoH would be a little broken, if that can be adjusted then preps w/barrage can probably work.

Granted, but at the same time PvE groups scatter enough already. It seems like it would keep casters on their toes (an indirect interrupt) but also make single shots worth while in damage. (I kind of like that idea of rangers not doing a lot of spike damage, but poking the enemy party that they need to keep an eye on their tactics like positioning and coverage of small DPS conditions - DANCE MONKEY DANCE!)
I've been enjoying the incendiary build for PvE and when the group is close together it's a quick kill.... but I rarely get so clean a shot. Seems like it would be the same with barrage.

Xiaquin · May 12, 2011, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kegen

Preparations
1) didn't get removed by barrage/volley
2) stacked together (2 at a time or something)
3) worked with a counter (e.g. 50 arrows prepped and then could be used with any arrow skill).

I actually like the preparation stacking. It would need some restriction, possibly a system that assigns a tier to preparations (ex. 1, 2, 3) and say, not allow combining a top-tier prep with another, it would have to stand on its own. However you could combine as many low tiers as you like (bleeding, poison, etc.).

I'm not sure how I feel about Barrage. On the one hand, it's not that powerful on its own; Splinter Weapon is what makes it devastating. There are a few preps I would say should get removed, but I'm lenient enough to support most of them. Volley shouldn't get the same treatment.

Kegen · May 12, 2011, 04:43 PM // 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

I actually like the preparation stacking. It would need some restriction, possibly a system that assigns a tier to preparations (ex. 1, 2, 3) and say, not allow combining a top-tier prep with another, it would have to stand on its own. However you could combine as many low tiers as you like (bleeding, poison, etc.).

I'm not sure how I feel about Barrage. On the one hand, it's not that powerful on its own; Splinter Weapon is what makes it devastating. There are a few preps I would say should get removed, but I'm lenient enough to support most of them. Volley shouldn't get the same treatment.

I like that idea a lot. Your effectiveness would be dictated by the layering you do (much like stacking enchantments). It would allow you to mildly switch up the most effective conditions without having to hit up a town.

I could see abuse of barrage (players a excellent at finding the most efficient path). Best way I could think of to deal with it in the current system is to make preps a certain % less effective when firing multiple arrows much like the alliance skill does.

Still thinking the arrow prep count is the best bet for variety of fun. Maybe each time you run a prep you make 10 arrows of that trait. Have a max count of arrows that can be held at a time. When you attack you could toggle the the types of arrows you want to send off (which might be mutually exclusive to prep stacking)..... and then we could all get ponies and ride to the local game store to buy new video cards... er... sorry, got caught up in the dreaming.

But why wouldn't volley get the same treatment? Or did you mean volley wouldn't have the same restrictions due to the lesser arrow count?

Amy Awien · May 12, 2011, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kegen

I could see abuse of barrage

The preps in wilderness survival would be the most 'devastating' in combination with barrage. Choking Gas, Ignite or kindle with EBSoH, poison/bleeding on quite a few targets at once, they're all in Wilderness Survival, while the ones in Marksmanship and Expertise wouldn't be as strong with Barrage.

Xiaquin · May 13, 2011, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kegen

But why wouldn't volley get the same treatment? Or did you mean volley wouldn't have the same restrictions due to the lesser arrow count?

I wouldn't want it to be exploited, but I guess that depends on preps (which would be getting reworked themselves) and the stacking rules.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

The preps in wilderness survival would be the most 'devastating' in combination with barrage. Choking Gas, Ignite or kindle with EBSoH, poison/bleeding on quite a few targets at once, they're all in Wilderness Survival, while the ones in Marksmanship and Expertise wouldn't be as strong with Barrage.

If you can imagine having three "slots" to build your arrow, I would set preps like CG and IA as three units. I would like to see them on Barrage but agree that stacking abuse would get crazy.

However, I don't see degen being very high on the list of things players would want, given proper restriction. PvE seems more about pure damage than pressure, which would just be gravy in the form of DoT. Personally I wouldn't find bleed/poison too worthwhile when there's RtW and, stacking permitted, Expert's Focus. Rapid Fire would also be nice to alleviate the problem of IAS being so tied to Lightning Reflexes.

Interesting that you didn't note Disrupting Accuracy. That could be interesting with a very high attribute (though those pesky Sins would still see more use out of it).